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Read February 11, 2009, 10:07:17 pm #0
Pixel_Outlaw

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Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
I recently had an idea today. I wish to start a sort of month long comp and want to get thoughts.

Brace yourself.

I want to start a euroshmup comp to see who can create the worst shmup possible using cliche euroshmup style follies. There may not be a grand prize but I might do something simple like 10 or 15 bucks to the winner.

The purpose of this is to demonstrate what can really go wrong with a shmup when you try to please mainstream players and use techniques that really don't mesh well.

let me discuss common euroshmup blunders (some work but are rarely executed in a good way)

Consider this contest a chance to make a horrible but playable game. Euroshmups gone bad.


1. Length (more levels than you want to sit through)
2. Absurdly large unanimated sprites usually pre-rendered/textured
3. Inertia that cripples the player and breaks that "Zen" feeling
4. More flash that bang (excessive particles at times that looks like enemy bullets)
5. Upgrades/money for new parts/weapons
6. No shot patterns but instead linear belching out of very tiny sometimes unavoidable bullets
7. Hitbars as an excuse to mask the unavoidable shot patterns
8. Foreground and background objects look the same and you cannot tell what is dangerous and what is passive
9. Unbalanced weapons
10. Too many weapons
11. Mindless boring stretches usually with asteroid levels
12. High resolution simply for the sake of high resolution (with smudgy unanimated sprites)
13. A broken scoring system that shows little care for score based playing (more towards survival)
14. Enemies firing from behind/offscreen
15. Bosses who just move and fire predictable linear patterns with no real animation
16. Poorly implemented controls (mouse mayhaps but not always poor)
17. Fuel pickups


I'm sure there are much more to be thought of. I want this comp to be a rejection of mainstream euroshmup style games. I want to see who can make the most off-putting euroshmup style game possible. Now let me clarify there are good European people making good shmups, I want "eurpshmup" style abominations for this one however.

Just testing this idea for now. There may be a dev time of a whole month for this.

« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 10:20:28 pm by Pixel_Outlaw »

Aviator sunglasses are pretty much the shmups of the sunglasses world.
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Read February 11, 2009, 11:19:36 pm #1
the2bears

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
I like this idea a lot!

Bill

the2bears - the indie shmup blog
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Read February 11, 2009, 11:42:56 pm #2
Null1024

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
This sounds like fun. At least for the devs... Smiley

[bilateral] -- demo 9 released:
http://www.shmup-dev.com/forum/index.php?topic=1412
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Read February 13, 2009, 01:52:27 pm #3
VectorVanDoom

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
if you would win a session you could simply set this as the new theme Wink
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Read February 13, 2009, 06:36:36 pm #4
Pixel_Outlaw

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
I think this would need more time.


Aviator sunglasses are pretty much the shmups of the sunglasses world.
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Read February 15, 2009, 06:38:52 pm #5
worstplayer

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
So, basically you want us to make new Soldner X?
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Read February 15, 2009, 10:38:02 pm #6
Pixel_Outlaw

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
Quote from: worstplayer on February 15, 2009, 06:38:52 pm
So, basically you want us to make new Soldner X?

Bingo.


Aviator sunglasses are pretty much the shmups of the sunglasses world.
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Read February 16, 2009, 02:44:10 am #7
kdmiller3

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
Ooh, burn!  Grin
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Read February 17, 2009, 01:37:03 am #8
Squirrelsquid

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
Quote from: Pixel_Outlaw on February 11, 2009, 10:07:17 pm
1. Length (more levels than you want to sit through)
yuss - more content with the same enemies over and over again makes sense!
Quote from: Pixel_Outlaw on February 11, 2009, 10:07:17 pm
2. Absurdly large unanimated sprites usually pre-rendered/textured
Animation is for the weak!
Quote from: Pixel_Outlaw on February 11, 2009, 10:07:17 pm
3. Inertia that cripples the player and breaks that "Zen" feeling
Inertia is needed in every good shmup!
Quote from: Pixel_Outlaw on February 11, 2009, 10:07:17 pm
4. More flash that bang (excessive particles at times that looks like enemy
bullets)
who cares about visibility of bullets when you can have a billion of particles on screen.
Quote from: Pixel_Outlaw on February 11, 2009, 10:07:17 pm
5. Upgrades/money for new parts/weapons
I love that!
Quote from: Pixel_Outlaw on February 11, 2009, 10:07:17 pm
6. No shot patterns but instead linear belching out of very tiny sometimes
unavoidable bullets
evey enemy should shoot down - just the size of the bullets should vary... that's what the people want! uhu~
Quote from: Pixel_Outlaw on February 11, 2009, 10:07:17 pm
7. Hitbars as an excuse to mask the unavoidable shot patterns
Hitbars are a good thing - I think. you can sustain more of the different sized bullets all coming down.
Quote from: Pixel_Outlaw on February 11, 2009, 10:07:17 pm
8. Foreground and background objects look the same and you cannot tell what is dangerous and what is passive
it should look like a painting - everything should blend
Quote from: Pixel_Outlaw on February 11, 2009, 10:07:17 pm
9. Unbalanced weapons
The lazer shoult bee strngest!!!11!!11°°°
Quote from: Pixel_Outlaw on February 11, 2009, 10:07:17 pm
10. Too many weapons
the more the merrier
Quote from: Pixel_Outlaw on February 11, 2009, 10:07:17 pm
11. Mindless boring stretches usually with asteroid levels
these are the best parts! they are needed to make it look like you are in spaaace!
Quote from: Pixel_Outlaw on February 11, 2009, 10:07:17 pm
12. High resolution simply for the sake of high resolution (with smudgy unanimated sprites)
low resolution is not good for euroshmup. euroshmup need more motionblur!
Quote from: Pixel_Outlaw on February 11, 2009, 10:07:17 pm
13. A broken scoring system that shows little care for score based playing (more towards survival)
broken scores are essential for euro shmups
Quote from: Pixel_Outlaw on February 11, 2009, 10:07:17 pm
14. Enemies firing from behind/offscreen
I love that
Quote from: Pixel_Outlaw on February 11, 2009, 10:07:17 pm
15. Bosses who just move and fire predictable linear patterns with no real animation
again: who needs variety or animation?
Quote from: Pixel_Outlaw on February 11, 2009, 10:07:17 pm
16. Poorly implemented controls (mouse mayhaps but not always poor)
controlz are for the poor!
Quote from: Pixel_Outlaw on February 11, 2009, 10:07:17 pm
17. Fuel pickups
does your ship run with donuts? Shocked

these are the perfect "do's" for Havoc Zone! oh my, it will be so more awesome!
THANK YOU!

(just kidding Grin )

anyway, sounds like a fun idea.
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Read February 18, 2009, 10:21:57 am #9
Pixel_Outlaw

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
the2bears and I have been discussing length. Euroshmups are usually long but we don't want to put too much time into crappy games.

How about the game need only be 1 or 2 levels long? Now we know that euroshmups always have demo versions that expire after 30 days or so. I think the best thing to do is make the "game" a 1 or 2 level demo for a euroshmup.

Thoughts?


Aviator sunglasses are pretty much the shmups of the sunglasses world.
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Read February 19, 2009, 12:41:38 am #10
Squirrelsquid

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
I thought of letting each level just consist of boring asteroid stretches and a boss in the end, that is little to no challenge.
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Read February 24, 2009, 05:17:48 am #11
Udderdude

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
I HAVE MADE SHITSHMUP

<a href="http://rydia.net/udder/!crap/shitShmup.swf" target="_blank">http://rydia.net/udder/!crap/shitShmup.swf</a>
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Read February 24, 2009, 05:18:41 am #12
Pixel_Outlaw

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
Man that thing is deplorable!

That is the spirit!

Now you need some notifications to purchase the "full version"

For only $19.99 you can get 5 new weapons and unlock the rest of the 23 levels.

Euroshmups are ALWAYS shareware.


Aviator sunglasses are pretty much the shmups of the sunglasses world.
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Read February 24, 2009, 09:57:35 am #13
Hacked

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
crap..
is it bad that i actually thought it was fun? :s
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Read February 24, 2009, 08:03:55 pm #14
Udderdude

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
Quote from: Hacked on February 24, 2009, 09:57:35 am
crap..
is it bad that i actually thought it was fun? :s

Yes :S
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Read February 25, 2009, 05:51:27 am #15
bleenko

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
Quote from: Pixel_Outlaw on February 24, 2009, 05:18:41 am
Man that thing is deplorable!

That is the spirit!

Now you need some notifications to purchase the "full version"

For only $19.99 you can get 5 new weapons and unlock the rest of the 23 levels.

Euroshmups are ALWAYS shareware.

I can kind of get the sense of every requirement in your list at the top, but I don't understand the thing about euroshmups always being shareware.
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Read February 25, 2009, 06:00:33 am #16
the2bears

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
Quote from: bleenko on February 25, 2009, 05:51:27 am
I can kind of get the sense of every requirement in your list at the top, but I don't understand the thing about euroshmups always being shareware.

Just sarcasm, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Bill

the2bears - the indie shmup blog
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Read February 25, 2009, 06:32:27 pm #17
Null1024

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
Quote from: Udderdude on February 24, 2009, 05:17:48 am
I HAVE MADE SHITSHMUP

<a href="http://rydia.net/udder/!crap/shitShmup.swf" target="_blank">http://rydia.net/udder/!crap/shitShmup.swf</a>
Epic in every way. I was about to complain horribly, and then I remembered what topic I was in.

[bilateral] -- demo 9 released:
http://www.shmup-dev.com/forum/index.php?topic=1412
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Read February 25, 2009, 06:51:11 pm #18
bleenko

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
Quote from: the2bears on February 25, 2009, 06:00:33 am
Quote from: bleenko on February 25, 2009, 05:51:27 am
I can kind of get the sense of every requirement in your list at the top, but I don't understand the thing about euroshmups always being shareware.

Just sarcasm, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Bill
yeah totally
But the irony of the others was so funny and I missed the joke in this one so I wanted an explanation so I could get this one too

This competition is gold and I'm sure anyone who did err in the way of the list would be able to laugh with it, even if they had erred in every point
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Read February 26, 2009, 03:57:45 am #19
Udderdude

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
More replies from various people

"the fuck is this shit"
"40 Seconds. I want the full version."
"mouse control? MOUSE CONTROL?"
"WHY DO I MOVE SO SLOW"
"OH GOD, my ears fell off."
"it's like i'm playing a shitty version of touhou's bullethell"
"Dude, it's the most innovative game I've ever seen. You have invented the new genre! Add achievements"
"nice soundtrack"
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Read April 06, 2009, 05:15:57 pm #20
Matthew Doucette

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
Quote from: Pixel_Outlaw on February 15, 2009, 10:38:02 pm
Quote from: worstplayer on February 15, 2009, 06:38:52 pm
So, basically you want us to make new Soldner X?

Bingo.

Oh no... Soldner X doesn't have a health bar, does it?!!

Matthew Doucette / Xona Games
...our upcoming dual play Xbox 360 2D shooter: Duality ZF
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Read April 07, 2009, 08:56:09 am #21
moosa

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
That just made my week.
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Read May 27, 2009, 09:36:39 pm #22
CaptainJustice

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
The soundtrack is without a doubt the best part. I'm laughing so hard.
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Read May 27, 2009, 09:45:34 pm #23
Matthew Doucette

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
41 seconds lol

Matthew Doucette / Xona Games
...our upcoming dual play Xbox 360 2D shooter: Duality ZF
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Read May 28, 2009, 01:16:59 pm #24
TMR

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
The jury is still out over Soldner-X here... i'm actively enjoying it even if my arse is being regularly handed to me! And yes, it's got energy bars coming out of it's ears for the ship, one per weapon all of which charge independently and the chain system has a likkle one as well.

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Read May 28, 2009, 11:14:36 pm #25
moosa

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
I think the idea was for more like "health bars." If meters for your weapons and stuff are bad, then I'll gladly make "bad" shmups. Wink

Edit: Speaking of health bars... I just played "2nd Age," one of the most recent "MUST HAVE" titles on the Shoot the Core PC Database. I was getting hit like every 5 seconds and just kept right on playing up to the level 4 boss. Apparently you start out with 6 lives and 10 hits each. Easily one of the cheapest shmups I've ever played, but the action is intense and the graphics are cool. A pretty mindless experience.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2009, 11:44:00 pm by moosa »
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Read May 30, 2009, 12:40:38 pm #26
TMR

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
Quote from: moosa on May 28, 2009, 11:14:36 pm
I think the idea was for more like "health bars." If meters for your weapons and stuff are bad, then I'll gladly make "bad" shmups. Wink

As i said, Soldner-X has a ship energy bar; if it drops below 20%, the "bezerker mode" kicks in where the ship jitters like it's having a caffeine rush, any hits it takes do less damage and bullets cause more harm than they do otherwise.

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Read May 31, 2009, 03:38:42 am #27
moosa

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
But is it compensating for unavoidable bullet patterns? That's the real key. Smiley
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Read May 31, 2009, 10:33:49 am #28
TMR

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
Quote from: moosa on May 31, 2009, 03:38:42 am
But is it compensating for unavoidable bullet patterns? That's the real key. Smiley

That's difficult to judge, certainly there are points during the second level where it's very hard to avoid the bullets or the nasties themselves and generally speaking i spend most of my time in "berserker mode" with about 5% of the power left.

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Read June 01, 2009, 12:14:54 am #29
moosa

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
I kinda think shmup developers are all just caught up in a "bigger than yours" competition to have created the most difficult shmup... >_>
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Read June 01, 2009, 12:44:47 am #30
TMR

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
Quote from: moosa on June 01, 2009, 12:14:54 am
I kinda think shmup developers are all just caught up in a "bigger than yours" competition to have created the most difficult shmup... >_>

In some cases yes, in others it's probably that they're the only people playtesting things and balancing difficulty when you've been working on a game for a few months can be a right bugger...

Actually, i'm just getting more and more narked at the term "euroshmup" i think...

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Read June 01, 2009, 05:44:48 am #31
moosa

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
Lets make this simple:

"Good Shmups" <---------------> "Bad Shmups"

Grin
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Read June 10, 2009, 03:29:31 pm #32
pixelizr

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
Teh SHITSHMUP gameplay is broken. Grin There is a very obvious loophole that can make you play it forever without getting hit. I personally made it up to 205 seconds, before I got bored and deliberately crashed myself into 5 enemies. Wink
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Read June 10, 2009, 10:34:12 pm #33
moosa

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
This gets better. What other cool secrets have you hidden in there Udderdude?
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Read June 20, 2009, 12:39:45 am #34
Udderdude

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
Quote from: pixelizr on June 10, 2009, 03:29:31 pm
Teh SHITSHMUP gameplay is broken. Grin There is a very obvious loophole that can make you play it forever without getting hit. I personally made it up to 205 seconds, before I got bored and deliberately crashed myself into 5 enemies. Wink

I don't think sitting there listening to that music for all eternity counts as "winning".
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Read June 20, 2009, 12:40:11 am #35
Udderdude

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
Quote from: moosa on June 10, 2009, 10:34:12 pm
This gets better. What other cool secrets have you hidden in there Udderdude?

None, it really is just shit.
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Read June 20, 2009, 08:14:51 pm #36
Null1024

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
Haha, the background disappears in shitshmup after a while...

I went for 99 seconds before getting bored.

[bilateral] -- demo 9 released:
http://www.shmup-dev.com/forum/index.php?topic=1412
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Read June 21, 2009, 01:40:25 pm #37
Korenn

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
Quote from: pixelizr on June 10, 2009, 03:29:31 pm
Teh SHITSHMUP gameplay is broken. Grin There is a very obvious loophole that can make you play it forever without getting hit. I personally made it up to 205 seconds, before I got bored and deliberately crashed myself into 5 enemies. Wink
But you won't get any monies that way! how are you going to afford powerups!?!?!?!11

I think it needs more random bullets coming from off-screen.
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Read July 19, 2009, 08:26:47 pm #38
Udderdude

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
Going to resurrect this poor topic with some info on shitshmup 2.  Coming possibly never.

Shitshmup II : Shit Harder

Scenario 1 : Player's ship is a giant boss that moves ridiculously slow
Goal: Survive 10 seconds

Scenario 2 : Rank meter goes off the scale every time player moves ship
Goal: Survive 10 seconds

Scenario 3 : Entire playfield rotates at high rate of speed
Goal: Survive 10 seconds

Scenario 4 : Player's shots intentionally avoid enemies
Goal: Kill 10 enemies in 20 seconds

Scenario 5 : Player's shot is a giant laser which covers the entire screen
Goal: Kill exactly 20 enemies in 20 seconds

Scenario 6 : Enemies explode in obscene amount of revenge bullets
Goal: Kill exactly 3 enemies, no time limit

Scenario 7 : Player's ship moves stupidly fast (15+ pixels per frame)
Goal: Survive 20 seconds

Scenario 8 : Enemies come from all sides of the screen while the player can only fire up (as in 3d up)
Goal: Survive 10 seconds

Scenario 9 : Player has hundreds of lives which constantly get lost due to instant hit lasers, while extends are 5 points each.
Goal: Survive 10 seconds

Scenario 10 : Reversed controls, enemies explode on impact with ship
Goal: Kill 20 enemies in 10 seconds

Bonus Scenario 1 : Food comes down the screen as well as enemies
Goal: Don't shoot the food for 20 seconds

Bonus Scenario 2 : You have one life
Goal: Game over in 2 seconds or less

Bonus Scenario 3 : Player's shots don't move at all
Goal: Destroy all enemies on-screen in 10 seconds

Bonus Scenario 4 : Playfield is zoomed out to the point where everything is a single pixel in size
Goal: Survive for 10 seconds

Bonus Scenario 5 : You have limited ammo and 1 shot, there is 1 enemy on the screen that moves very erratically
Goal: Destroy the one enemy in 30 seconds

Bonus scenarios only available if you complete scenarios 1-10

Of course on top of all this will be the usual awful graphics, toilets/shit and horrible music, etc.
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Read July 20, 2009, 12:21:50 am #39
Korenn

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Re: Possible Comp-How bad can it get?
I don't think all of those hit the mark... some of them sound like lots of fun Tongue
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