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Read April 09, 2008, 03:24:22 pm #0
Linley

White Butterfly (Minor update 27 January '09)

EDIT: White Butterfly is finally finished! Jump straight to the post with the announcement.

EDIT: Okay, I've updated to version 1.1 (with a few minor changes). Here's the announcement.

Time for my next game! This one is called White Butterfly and if you're logged in you can download the demo.



It's mostly straightforward - choose one of four fighters, fly around and shoot things. As in Garden of Coloured Lights your weapons level up through destroying non-boss enemies (see the bars in the top left of the screen) but the trick here is that all three work at the lowest level you have - so you'll have to use all of them or stay weak. Yes, this is in part a response to the general condemnation of Worms of Torment :)

In this demo you can fly four fighters and start on stage 1 or 2. The final version will have lots more but you'll have to unlock parts of it.

The default is fullscreen but you can edit init.txt to play in a window. Windowed gives really cruddy performance on my system, though, and in particular makes the music go all glitchy (which for once is not intentional). You can also change joystick settings and do a few other things.

Comments on balance, levels, controls, sound, graphics and anything else welcome!
« Last Edit: January 27, 2009, 09:14:36 am by Linley »

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Read April 09, 2008, 05:20:40 pm #1
the2bears

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

Looking forward to trying this out... when I'm not at work.  Maybe when I am Wink

Bill


the2bears - the indie shmup blog
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Read April 10, 2008, 02:42:24 am #2
ThetaGames

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

I tried it out, though I don't know how far I got.  It was quite good; I like the variety of ships.  What mainly attracted me was the atmosphere.  Overall, it was very mellow, with the toned-down colors, and the simple, sine-wave music.  Quite a different atmospheric experience than with most SHMUP's.

Very nice!

~ Theta Games


"What is a circle but a square without corners?"
http://www.thetagames.co.nr
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Read April 10, 2008, 04:11:39 am #3
monoRAIL

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

Looks very promising! I loved garden and this looks like a sequel. The music and sounds are beautiful, as usual.

The game seemed to run with inverted colors when I run fullscreen (white background, orange ship) - but windowed was fine, no graphics or sound glitches.
Some suggestions for the menu - if the player enables joystick control it would be nice to navigate the menu with the joystick. Also, you have to press enter to select menu items, but then you have to press Z to start the game - that's confusing, you should allow both.

I'm curious as to why you've required two buttons to be held down for the 3rd shot. I play shmups with an analog gamepad, and it's hard to press 2 buttons with 1 thumb. It would be good to allow the player to map the 3rd shot onto a 3rd button. I suppose you wanted to reduce the number of keys keyboard players would have to press, particularly when there's a slow button that they might have to hold down. I think allowing a 3rd fire button, or holding button 1 and 2 would solve the problem.

Now for the weapons:
White butterfly - the autocannon is good. It might be more satisfying if it fired faster but did less damage. Maybe it's just me, I like a rapid firing main gun. The heavy cannon needs some kind of charge indicator - a sound effect, and maybe a graphical effect to let you know it's fully charged. The seekers seemed fine.

Anemone - nice main gun, pretty satisfying - I like how the ship pulses when it fires. The short range version of the sword didn't seem as useful as the long range. Getting close enough to use the short sword feels too risky, making me want to always use the long range one. The faster swing on the short sword isn't enough of an incentive to want to use it. Perhaps the short sword could sweep away smaller enemy bullets, but not the bigger boss bullets.

Spinneret - the orb beams are cool, very original. I think they should extend faster though - you're punished for releasing fire, because it takes a long time to extend the beams back out, and this makes the player not want to switch weapon. Also, moving up screen you overtake your beams. I'd make them extend twice as fast. The bomb is cool - but it's not obvious when they're available. After a few plays I noticed the bomb graphic stuck on the ship, but it should be clearer, maybe make them bigger and trailing behind the player like options in gradius? The scatter fire is great. (You've listed scatter fire and bomb launcher in the wrong order in the menu).

Hand of Xom - this was my favorite ship, probably because I didn't have to hold down 2 buttons to play it properly, but also because the hand weapon is cool. I would like to have some control over the reticule though - with it fixed you have to get very close to enemies, and you can't catch enemies that are low on the screen. Maybe you could allow a little movement of the reticule, say in a 300 pixel radius around its default location - controlled by the player's movement. So if I'm moving left, the reticule would reach left a little, allowing me to lock them without getting fully in front of them. This would sort of feel like you're painting the targets with the reticule. The locked hand was great for taking down bosses, but not much use otherwise. I think it would be good if the locked hand could block enemy bullets, so you could erect a temporary shield with it. Also you should be able to lock it even if there's no enemies on screen.

As for the ships generally - The butterfly and anemone are the strongest designs. I'd like to see more details on the ships like moving parts, jets thrusting with the movement, maybe even banking as you turn. The pulsing in time to the guns on the butterfly and anemone works well.

Finally - change the color of the orange enemy bullets, they look too much like the explosions and player bullets. A few times I thought the returning hand of xom was an enemy bullet chasing me!

Can't wait to see the unlockable ships. I think this will have lots of replay value.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2008, 04:21:17 am by monoRAIL »

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Read April 10, 2008, 06:46:15 am #4
the2bears

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

All right, I've had a chance to play few this a few times, with the different ships. 

As a big fan of Garden of Coloured Lights (GoCL) it should not surprise you that I like this quite a bit.  It's obviously heavily influence by your previous outing, and I think like you hint an attempt to balance some things. 

I definitely felt I was using all 3 weapons more consistently, and paying attention to their levels.  I think this is a good thing, though it puts pressure on you to have some preset combinations that "make sense".  Some of the weapons took a little figuring out, exactly how to use them (one was a charge weapon?  And when/how does the bomb renew?)  Like GoCL this game is about learning the levels.  You really have to understand your weapons and where/when to use them.  If you don't, you can very quickly be overwhelmed. 

I like the style, GoCL but with some glow now.  And the music is great!  At the moment I think my only suggestion is to slow down some of the enemy shots.  They seem a little too fast given your ship's speed and what I feel is the "sweet spot" pace for your games.  A little slower would seem to lead this more into the "tactical" contest I think it should be - a little less twitch, allowing the player to fearlessly go into a storm of bullets and hit the right trigger for the necessary weapon.

One last thing... I have to say that your weapon design is some of the coolest around Smiley 

Bill


the2bears - the indie shmup blog
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Read April 10, 2008, 06:50:08 am #5
Pixel_Outlaw

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

I must say that I love your choice of colors! The game is visually very nice and as the2bears said the game plays really well too.


It definitely has a shikigami no shiro feel with the choices for weapons and how the effect the game!
« Last Edit: April 10, 2008, 06:55:53 am by Pixel_Outlaw »


Aviator sunglasses are pretty much the shmups of the sunglasses world.
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Read April 10, 2008, 11:33:27 am #6
Linley

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

Thanks for the comments so far. I really appreciate it!

The game seemed to run with inverted colors when I run fullscreen (white background, orange ship) - but windowed was fine, no graphics or sound glitches.

Strange. I've always had odd, inexplicable corruption problems with Allegro palettes and dealt with them by putting giant arrays before and after the palette array declarations as a form of padding. Maybe there needs to be more padding...

But I'll put windowed mode is an an in-game option. Possibly the glitches are just because my computer is getting a little long in the tooth.

Quote
Some suggestions for the menu - if the player enables joystick control it would be nice to navigate the menu with the joystick. Also, you have to press enter to select menu items, but then you have to press Z to start the game - that's confusing, you should allow both.

Yeah, I think I'll add this. The menu interface definitely needs work.

Quote
I'm curious as to why you've required two buttons to be held down for the 3rd shot.

Probably because I don't have a gamepad :). Actually I found that having three buttons in GoCL confused my brain somehow, so that I would find myself pressing two buttons at once and becoming subliminally frustrated that they weren't both working. Having two buttons with a special function for both together seems to fix that, maybe because choosing to press both at once becomes a conscious decision. Also, I think I remember people not liking being unable to fire all three weapons at once in GoCL so I thought I'd head off that complaint at the start. But I'll look into adding 3-button controls as an option.

Quote
The heavy cannon needs some kind of charge indicator - a sound effect, and maybe a graphical effect to let you know it's fully charged. The seekers seemed fine.

I didn't want to add a charge bar to the display, because it would be cluttery (although you can tell that it's fully charged when the two little jets come out the sides). But I think a charge bar would make some things a lot nicer, including the spinneret's bomb reload. I'll give it a try.

Quote
Anemone - nice main gun, pretty satisfying - I like how the ship pulses when it fires. The short range version of the sword didn't seem as useful as the long range. Getting close enough to use the short sword feels too risky, making me want to always use the long range one. The faster swing on the short sword isn't enough of an incentive to want to use it. Perhaps the short sword could sweep away smaller enemy bullets, but not the bigger boss bullets.

The short range blade does far more damage, though. I contemplated letting it block bullets, but giving some ships defensive weapons would make it even harder to get the balance right (the same applies to the open hand).

Quote
Spinneret - the orb beams are cool, very original. I think they should extend faster though - you're punished for releasing fire, because it takes a long time to extend the beams back out, and this makes the player not want to switch weapon.

Yeah, the spinneret is deliberately tricky to use, because its weapons are pretty powerful.

Quote
Hand of Xom - this was my favorite ship, probably because I didn't have to hold down 2 buttons to play it properly, but also because the hand weapon is cool. I would like to have some control over the reticule though - with it fixed you have to get very close to enemies, and you can't catch enemies that are low on the screen.

Hmm, I'll try this out and see how it works.

Personally I find the open hand useful in taking down any large enemies (it does a bit more damage than the closed hand).

Quote
Finally - change the color of the orange enemy bullets, they look too much like the explosions and player bullets. A few times I thought the returning hand of xom was an enemy bullet chasing me!

This is actually trickier than it sounds because of the limited palette space. I was planning to leave this in as part of the challenge.


Some of the weapons took a little figuring out, exactly how to use them (one was a charge weapon?  And when/how does the bomb renew?)

The bombs just reload by themselves. And the Butterfly's heavy cannon and seekers are both charge weapons (they are most efficient at full power, and not very efficient at low power).

Quote
At the moment I think my only suggestion is to slow down some of the enemy shots.  They seem a little too fast given your ship's speed and what I feel is the "sweet spot" pace for your games.  A little slower would seem to lead this more into the "tactical" contest I think it should be - a little less twitch, allowing the player to fearlessly go into a storm of bullets and hit the right trigger for the necessary weapon.

I'll think about this. Probably stage 3 will have a generally slower pace.

Thanks!
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Read April 11, 2008, 04:27:49 am #7
serprex

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

I liked the hand. The bullets were a bit swarm style, I couldn't see any definite patterns like most danmaku stuff. And of course I've gotten use to rR and tried to sneak between a trail of bullets, can't say that went down well
Charge stuff didn't seem obvious enough. The hand also caught me off guard a little, in its dormant state I had thought you decided to start working with homing bullets
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Read April 11, 2008, 12:17:48 pm #8
cactus

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

I was so glad when I saw this on the2bears. Awesome game. I really like the music and the feel of it. I liked the last ship best. Very powerful and fun to play with. Great graphics as always, nice variety of ships and enemies. Looking forward to seeing more  smiley2
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Read April 12, 2008, 03:38:21 am #9
simon

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

Looking forward to source, if it's coming, so I can build a mac port! Thanks for GoCL, I loved it!
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Read April 14, 2008, 09:37:05 pm #10
jph

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

wow - White Butterfly is super great!  the style is wonderus,. the clean look and the ultra-smoothness of it all,. including the fine sound work! Wish I was a better shumper,. as it is way too hard for me even on 'normal',. guess I'm sub-normal Wink
How are you producing the music notes, is it generative or are there some form of note data ?  the mellodies sound great to me,. I am working with ZGameEditor now, and have been experimenting with random note veriations, however I would like to do something more generative based off chords,. like an arppegiator does.  or find osme fractal like equations to generate note/chord progresions,. anyhoo, ..

your games just keep geting better and better,. this one is going to roc!  in a mellow smoothed out sorta way,. Wink

peace



iterationGAMES.com
 remember when we used to play ?
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Read April 15, 2008, 10:36:23 am #11
Linley

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

Hi jph!
The music is based on lists of notes in a data structure. The stage 1 music has a few dozen 'bars' of music, which are played according to a long script. The music has three layers to it, and in some parts of the script the layers are randomised a bit. But it's not really generative. Stage 2 is just a few bars, but each note of the melody has two alternative tones in the structure and the tone played is chosen randomly.

I tried random music generation in Overgod, and it was not so good. Although that was mostly because I used the wrong formula for note frequencies and as a result it was all off-key. Might try it again sometime.

Simon: Source will definitely be available. Otherwise there wouldn't be crazy things like the port of GoCL to the GP2X handheld system. I had no idea that was possible.
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Read April 21, 2008, 01:21:49 am #12
terpiscorei

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

Hi, Linley! I'm a huge fan of GoCL, and I am happy that White Butterfly does not disappoint in the least!

I agree with the comments hoping for some notification of when the Spinneret's bombs are ready. I find the extra jets on the Butterfly and the general size of the center ball to be good indicator; something like that on the Spinneret would be great. I understand your reluctance to put in a charge bar. I think an audio cue would be perfect for these types of things.

Out of the four ships, the easiest for me has been the White Butterfly. (After playing on and off since you released the demo, I can usually get around 3000-3500 points with this one, if that gives you an idea of how hard the game is for me.) The Anemone is next, then the Spinneret, with the Hand of Xom being the most difficult for me.

I think the Butterfly's homing weapon gives it a big advantage, as it makes firing from the top of the screen possible. Since you cannot collide with enemies and they don't generally fire immediately, the upper half of the screen is valuable real estate for escaping fire. To a lesser extent, this same reason makes the Anemone a more powerful ship.

The Hand of Xom is particularly hard for me because I find using the open hand to be rather tricky. I almost wish it moved, if only at a fraction of a rate of the closed hand, or was a bit bigger, or something. To boot, it's awfully hard to use on smaller or already-weakened enemies, which the closed hand will kill almost instantly. On the other hand, I really like that using this ship requires me to be even more particular as to how I kill the enemies.

All in all, though, I love the different approaches each ship requires. The idea to have all weapons operate at the least common level is great-- it adds a really cool dimension of resource management to the game, just as in GoCL, which is definitely one of my favorite things about your games. WB is much more approachable than GoCL, too, even though the difficulty ramps up quite quickly.

Fantastic work. Thank you for sharing it!
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Read September 16, 2008, 02:54:45 am #13
monoRAIL

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

Linley - when are you going to finish this game???
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Read September 16, 2008, 04:08:26 am #14
jakman4242

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

Could someone who has this upload it for me? I'm shocked I missed seeing this -- I love Linley's games.


My game design blog -- A bit outdated, but you might like to take a read anyway~
Or read my new blog!~ (which I do update)
My blog.
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Read September 22, 2008, 09:24:04 am #15
monoRAIL

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

Attachment re-hosted here.
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Read September 23, 2008, 12:29:50 am #16
jakman4242

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

I already have the game now, thank to the2bears. But thanks... That link might come in handy to anyone who doesn't have it yet.

I can't say too much about it yet, haven't even blown a full hour into it. I can only say right now, this fills some of the gaps GoCL left open, but has it's own gaps GoCL managed to keep closed.


My game design blog -- A bit outdated, but you might like to take a read anyway~
Or read my new blog!~ (which I do update)
My blog.
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Read September 23, 2008, 12:58:52 am #17
kdmiller3

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

I liked some of the things it was trying to do, but found it excessively difficult even on "normal", more so than Excellent Bifurcation or Garden of Coloured Lights.  Of course, the only way I got anywhere in GoCL was to compile my own build and enable cheats.  Smiley
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Read January 05, 2009, 01:42:01 pm #18
Substance20

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

(Hm, maybe if I say that the only reason I created an account here was to comment on this game, I'd get kicked REAL hard where it counts and...)

*Cough* Anyway. Hi, I'm Substance20, long time shmup fan. While searching for downloadable shmups to study on while working on a demo of my own game, I ran across White Butterfly on this website. Suffice to say I grabbed the nearest opportunity to download and play it, especially after seeing the screenshots.

Now, here's my take on this excellent piece of work.

1) I love the pastel colors and their usage. How much did you manage to squeeze into the palette? I read somewhere in this thread that your Allegro palette was limited, but I like how it was applied in this project. Ship designs are very interesting, though I was particularly fascinated with the Anemone and Hand of Xom ships--the latter looks like something out of Half-Life, and no, it's not the venerable headcrab.

However--and I believe this was also touched upon previously in the hread--what I absolutely find irritating with the game is the way the particle generation had been used. I can't count the number of times I swung around one of those large ships that constantly fired an alternating stream of fast-moving green bullets at my ship, only to get creamed by a tiny pellet out of nowhere simply because I initially thought the particles generated by the larger ships green shots could also kill me. Same with the smaller ships that fired what looked like 15 bullets out of their port, only for me to discover a mere 5 shots coming at me.

I understand this is due in part to the limited palette space, but perhaps you could minimize the use of particle effects as it is highly confusing, gameplay-wise. I could hardly distinguish between bullets and special effects; I'm going to have to concur with ThetaGames and admit that at several points I thought the returning Hand weapon from the Hand of Xom was an enemy bullet as well.

I'm not going to comment much on the bullet colors because I know the pain of having to work with a limited and numbered palette, but IMO the best bullets I saw in the game were the flowery white ones discharged by the large oval enemy ships, as they were the most visible due to the use of the solid glowing outlines. Perhaps using the same scheme for other bullets would help, though they might have different colors.

Also, one suggestion of mine would be to implement the same system Shikigami no Shiro II and the Touhou games used in order to designate the actual collision box for your ships. In SnS the player character's vulnerable spot glowed brightly in comparison to the rest of the body, helping the player know where and when to sneak between a wave of shots, while in Imperishable Night using your alternate fire (shift+Z) flashed the character's vulnerable spot white. I suggest perhaps using a different color for the cockpit area (which I'm assuming to be the vulnerable spot)?

2) The weapon design and implementation is spot on and fun to use. I especially liked the Spinneret as it was the easiest ship to use, followed by Hand of Xom and Anemone--ironically, I found the White Butterfly the hardest to use properly. The (scaled down) Radiant Silvergun-esque triple weapon system is ingenious, on the grounds that none of the individual weapons of each ship were too overpowered on their own, and that you had a weapon suited for every scenario. And the choice of weapon types is interesting, ranging from the Layer Section-esque "hand" of the Hand of Xom to the Radiant Silvergun-inspired Blade of the Anemone.

I also liked how you had a weapon for every situation--simply by using all of your available armamaments, you'll learn where and when to pull them out in order to blow up things. Case in point, Anemone. I love the variety this ship brings to the table. You're not ust shooting things in this game: with this particular baby you're slicing them in half as well. Hand of Xom also forces the player to learn strategic weapon positioning when using the Closed Hand weapon.

My biggest gripe with the weapons, though, is their relative inefficiency. I'm not saying they can't be used at all, or I wouldn't have raved about the above. :-) I'm saying, however, that I found them very hard to rely on when it mattered most.

The shots flew too slowly for me to hit anything, for example: the White Butterfly's regular shots are hard to connect with, but what I found really disturbing was the fact that its LOCK-ON shots oculd barely even touch those small drones that flew in curves across the screen. Hand of Xom's spread fire and the Spinneret's Orb Scatter are both guilty of possessing angles of fire that were too oddly placed to be of any help in hitting targets;, forcing me to rely on their other weapons to get through a tight situation which I initially thought could be handled by the most obvious weapon choice. I appreciate the idea of balancing a spreadshot attack by making it inaccurate, but in a game as tough as WB is on the Normal difficulty setting, it only makes playing the game more stressful than it needs to be. It was pretty hard for me to kill anything, especially when I was dodging bullets by a hair's breadth. In hindsight, maybe this was partly why one commenter said it was too tough for him to cope with the triple-weapon system.

I suggest giving the ships a noticeable difference in performance whenever they power up, instead of a mere increase in strength. There has to be a visible difference; an increased number of shots, a noticeably faster firing rate, faster and larger projectiles, etc. in order to a) encourage the layer to strengthen the weapons, and b) match the sheer swarms that appear at intervals in the levels. Game balancing issues will come into play here, obviously; a lot of players will have to get used to the fact that your weapons need to be powered up simultaneously, but I believe more tangible performance improvements will help encourage this action.

That's all for now...kudos with the great work, and I hope I can get my hands on a copy of the finished product, or maybe even beta-test it (if I had the free time).
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Read January 07, 2009, 12:07:01 am #19
Null1024

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

Eeeeh. The palette screws up on my system. Apparently, my system does this to every Allegro game that doesn't change the palette after startup. [As a reference, XOP Black also does this, but since it changes it's palette when starting a level, the colors are fine...]
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Read January 15, 2009, 07:57:22 am #20
Linley

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

Well, to be honest I did a bit more work on WB then got distracted by other shiny things (mostly a shameful addiction to a series of PS2 games that started with Disgaea and ended up with an even more shameful 93-hour game of Persona 3; fortunately I'm clean for the time being) and kind of gave up. But I saw the encouragement here, had another look at the code a few days ago and, yeah, I think it's worth finishing. I haven't added all the huge amount of content I was planning but it does have another level (with strange contrapuntal chiptune-meets-pseudoclassical music), another fighter (the fearsome Chaos Squid) and a whole lot of subtle refinements including a more realistic level of difficulty. I even did an options menu...I hate writing options menus. Worst part of a game.

Should be here sometime in the next week. Thanks for reminding me!
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Read January 15, 2009, 09:42:53 am #21
monoRAIL

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

Looking forward to it. The music sounds cool, and yeah - options menus are a chore. Someone should write a program that automates that.
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Read January 16, 2009, 09:48:08 pm #22
kdmiller3

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

Same here.  I definitely like the design and style despite the ferocious difficulty level...

Programming the game shell and options menu is neither creative nor fun, so it's hard to stay focused on it.  I went through the same thing on my own game project, and I intend to replace the hand-generated layout and specialized interface code with a more general user interface library and data-driven layout system.  However, I have so many other things to do that it's hard to get started on that... Grin
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Read January 17, 2009, 05:33:47 am #23
the2bears

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

Linley, very happy to hear you've started work on this again Smiley

Bill


the2bears - the indie shmup blog
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Read January 17, 2009, 07:11:06 am #24
hima

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

Yeah I was waiting for the full version too Smiley

Also Linley...what about P4 (;_;)?
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Read January 25, 2009, 05:11:52 am #25
Linley

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

EDIT: I've updated it to version 1.1; see the post below for changes (they're pretty minor). Download links have been updated as well.

Okay, it's done!  grin1

Version 1.0 adds a heap of stuff (compared to what was in the demo) and improves basically everything. It's also easier and just nicer all round.

The Windows binary, source code, and a special Windows Vista binary (which should work if the application directory is write-protected) are all attached to this post.

If you're not logged in to shmup-dev, they're also all up here at Sourceforge.
Butterfly_v11_win.zip is the Windows binary.
Butterfly_v11_src.zip is the source code.
Butterfly_v11_vista.zip is the Vista version.

Source should work for all platforms that are supported by Allegro (Windows, Mac, Linux, even DOS last time I checked). Just compile it and link to Allegro - let me know if you have any problems.

Have fun! Thanks for all of the comments; they've made it a much better game. And let me know what you think.

hima: I don't have a PS3, so I am mercifully safe from P4. For now.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2009, 09:07:05 am by Linley »

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Read January 25, 2009, 06:43:18 am #26
the2bears

Re: White Butterfly (Finished 25 January '09)

Linley, I'm very happy to see this.  Playing it now Smiley

Bill


the2bears - the indie shmup blog
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Read January 25, 2009, 07:49:37 am #27
Owen Butler

Re: White Butterfly (Finished 25 January '09)

This is a fantastic game.

Highlights for me:

* Subtle yet awesome firing animations for the player ships
* Variety in ships
* creative weapons (the orb beams oh my!)
* leveling up
* The backgrounds are so simple yet effective
* The minimal color palette keeps it all together nicely
* Some great bullet patterns from the bosses
* seems balanced from what little I've played

Some feedback and questions:

The interface indicated that I could choose levels at some point, but I couldn't work out how.  I thought maybe you had to make it to the level to be able to choose it, but I did get to level 2, and couldn't choose it.

I felt the player speed got me into trouble a few times and wished I could slow down slightly.

Every now and again a bullet pattern would leave bullets hanging on the screen.  This may be deliberate so fair enough.  I found that it did kind of interuppt my "flow" if there were such a thing.  It presented an extra challenge, but perhaps because of distraction rather than intention.

I'll be playing this game more.
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Read January 25, 2009, 12:33:34 pm #28
Sar

Re: White Butterfly (Demo 10 April)

a special Windows Vista binary (which should work if the application directory is write-protected)

I'm curious, what was it that didn't work under Vista before? I ask 'cause I had no trouble with the demo on Vista, didn't need to write-protect the application folder, and even tried the Windows version and that worked fine as well...

hima: I don't have a PS3, so I am mercifully safe from P4. For now.
...

It's probably best that you remain that way, yes, yes.





Anyway - I'm running late for some other things, thanks to spending too long playing with this, so I'll keep it brief, but - well, I really like it! There are only two things that annoy me about it, really, and they could both have been deliberate decisions. Firstly, the bubbling backgrounds get very distrating as the game progresses, making it not so easy to see quickly where there are enemy bullets; secondly, similarly, there are some bad guys which fire weapons which are the same colour as the player's shots... with some guns (orb beams, say) this isn't a problem, they're still very visible, but I had trouble noticing enemy bullets near my front when using the orb launcher on the same ship, because all the orange obscured the enemy bullets, which blended right in.

I don't know how deliberate it is, and I think the issue's been mentioned before, but enemy bullet visibility one way or another is the thing that makes this game particularly hard, for me. I guess it might even be unavoidable, given what I vaguely remember about your use of a 256-colour palette...


Also: Owen: There's a "slow" button, which makes you go slower while you hold it.
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Read January 25, 2009, 03:43:53 pm #29
monoRAIL

Re: White Butterfly (Finished 25 January '09)

I really want to enjoy this - but the frustrating controls are putting me off! Forcing the player to press 2 buttons at once to use certain weapons, and a 3rd button to slow down is a very bad design choice. It shows that you've only really tested it with the keyboard and not with a joystick. It's not possible to press 3 buttons at once with 1 thumb on a joystick.

Firstly, when playing with a joystick you should use the analog stick to control the speed.
Secondly, where the ships have 3 separate functions, just allow the player to use 3 buttons. In the case where 2 buttons are required (like firing the seeking shots while charging the white butterfly) it's not too bad, as on most controllers you can press button 1 and button 3 at the same time, but wherever possible, allow the player the choice.

I'm looking forward to seeing level 3 and the new ship, haven't reached it yet.
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Read January 25, 2009, 05:19:16 pm #30
the2bears

Re: White Butterfly (Finished 25 January '09)

The interface indicated that I could choose levels at some point, but I couldn't work out how.  I thought maybe you had to make it to the level to be able to choose it, but I did get to level 2, and couldn't choose it.

I was able to choose the level with the left/right arrows in the ship selection screen. 

edit:  Ah, but just with the ship that I used to reach the stages.

Bill
« Last Edit: January 25, 2009, 05:27:49 pm by the2bears »

the2bears - the indie shmup blog
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Read January 25, 2009, 05:33:37 pm #31
the2bears

Re: White Butterfly (Finished 25 January '09)

Linley,

What are you using for screen shots?  Fraps never seems to work with Allegro, and "Print Screen" gets a really messed up palette.

Bill


the2bears - the indie shmup blog
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Read January 25, 2009, 09:13:12 pm #32
Null1024

Re: White Butterfly (Finished 25 January '09)

Eeeeh. The palette screws up on my system. Apparently, my system does this to every Allegro game that doesn't change the palette after startup. [As a reference, XOP Black also does this, but since it changes it's palette when starting a level, the colors are fine...]
This (sadly) still applies. The messed up palette isn't particularly ugly, but it's wrong, because the game shows the palette correctly when it starts up, then messes up.
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Read January 25, 2009, 09:16:16 pm #33
the2bears

Re: White Butterfly (Finished 25 January '09)

This (sadly) still applies. The messed up palette isn't particularly ugly, but it's wrong, because the game shows the palette correctly when it starts up, then messes up.

This used to happen me occasionally.  It would be fine for a second, then switch to something really odd.  A restart of the game always fixed this for me, though.

Bill


the2bears - the indie shmup blog
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Read January 26, 2009, 09:24:24 pm #34
panic

Re: White Butterfly (Finished 25 January '09)

I attached a Mac binary, if anyone's interested.  Let me know if there are any issues.
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Read January 27, 2009, 02:03:23 am #35
Owen Butler

Re: White Butterfly (Finished 25 January '09)

I attached a Mac binary, if anyone's interested.  Let me know if there are any issues.
I tried this.

Input seemed to be stuck "up" for me.  The menu just keeps rotating.  I had to try and hit a button as it rotated over "exit".  I don't have a joystick or pad plugged in so I'm not sure where the input was coming from.

Additionally, when I finally got to exit all my windows had been resized to the size of the game.
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Read January 27, 2009, 08:03:19 am #36
hima

Re: White Butterfly (Finished 25 January '09)

Thank you for releasing the source code. I'm sure I'll learn a lot from it Smiley

Also...P4 is on PS2!! Cheesy
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Read January 27, 2009, 09:02:40 am #37
Linley

Re: White Butterfly (Finished 25 January '09)

Thanks for all the comments, everyone! I appreciate it.

I really want to enjoy this - but the frustrating controls are putting me off!

Ah, I meant to do something about this but somehow forgot to for version 1.0. Well, I've put version 1.1 up on sourceforge and it adds a third fire button which combines fire 1 and fire 2 (unless you're using the White Butterfly, in which case it doesn't discharge seekers until you let go).

Here it is. (I'll also update the links in the previous post)

Version 1.1 also takes screenshots if you press F1, and saves them to the game directory. And it makes it more obvious that you can't start on level 2 if you haven't unlocked it. And it fixes a minor bug with the Chaos Squid. And it provides more padding to the palette array to (hopefully) prevent corruption. No other changes, though. If you want to preserve your progress so far, just replace the .exe file.

What are you using for screen shots?  Fraps never seems to work with Allegro, and "Print Screen" gets a really messed up palette.

Yeah, I can't get Fraps to work with Allegro. I put a thing in the game that saves the display buffer to disk; it's in version 1.1 if you press F1.

Eeeeh. The palette screws up on my system. Apparently, my system does this to every Allegro game that doesn't change the palette after startup. [As a reference, XOP Black also does this, but since it changes it's palette when starting a level, the colors are fine...]
This (sadly) still applies. The messed up palette isn't particularly ugly, but it's wrong, because the game shows the palette correctly when it starts up, then messes up.

This is weird, because the palette is changed constantly (the fade effect when you start the game or change stages is the palette being switched). Not sure if there's anything I can do, although I've added more padding to the palette array which may prevent corruption (seems to be a weird Allegro bug).

a special Windows Vista binary (which should work if the application directory is write-protected)
I'm curious, what was it that didn't work under Vista before? I ask 'cause I had no trouble with the demo on Vista, didn't need to write-protect the application folder, and even tried the Windows version and that worked fine as well...

I had a report on the allegro.cc forums that Garden of Coloured Lights was unable to write data to the config file if Mac OSX or Windows Vista was set up to deny write permission for the application directory. I haven't used Vista so I don't know how common that is, and I thought I'd provide a special version just in case.

Quote
I don't know how deliberate it is, and I think the issue's been mentioned before, but enemy bullet visibility one way or another is the thing that makes this game particularly hard, for me. I guess it might even be unavoidable, given what I vaguely remember about your use of a 256-colour palette...

Yeah, 256 colours doesn't leave much space for subtle variations but I need to use 8-bit indexed colour to get the transparency effects I like. Consider it part of the challenge Smiley

Thank you for releasing the source code. I'm sure I'll learn a lot from it Smiley

Just a warning - I taught myself C from a book. That explains a lot about the quality of the source code.

Quote
Also...P4 is on PS2!! Cheesy

Damn.

Thanks again, everyone!
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Read January 27, 2009, 03:25:16 pm #38
kdmiller3

Re: White Butterfly (Finished 25 January '09)

Just a warning - I taught myself C from a book. That explains a lot about the quality of the source code.

Ahahaha Grin

To be fair, I'm a professional programmer and learned C from a book when I was in high school.  It's really just a matter of time and experience, though it's always worth looking for "good" code to use as reference.
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Read January 27, 2009, 08:57:46 pm #39
Sar

Re: White Butterfly (Finished 25 January '09)

Also...P4 is on PS2!! Cheesy

If he doesn't release any new cool games for the next year, I'm blaming you! ;-)
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